Matthew Didier is the kind of guy you’d want around your campfire.
The founder of the Toronto Ghosts and Hauntings Research Society, Didier is likely the city’s foremost expert on all things paranormal and he has the stories to back it up.
With Halloween around the corner, CP24.com recently spoke with Didier about why ghost stories are told the world over and how he separates the good ones from the bad.
CP24: Ghost research has been a sort of lifelong passion for you. Did you have any encounters with the unknown early in life that sort of sent you down this road?
Dider: Yeah, the long and the short of is that I moved into an older home when I was maybe 13, I met a friend down the street and we became quick friends. I had an Atari 2600 and we were allowed to have a sleepover so we could play the thing until our fingers bled but my parents banished us to the basement because they didn’t want to be kept awake. He and I played for quite a while, but it was a very strange atmosphere and it just felt weird, so he and I agreed to go up to my bedroom and just try to stay quiet. After we settled in he said “Why do you think we couldn’t stay down there?’ and I replied that it was probably a ghost and I was making a funny, but immediately after saying that at the rear of my room all the books decided to come off the shelf. Yes, the house could have settled and the shelf could have settled but it was almost like there was a sudden angle to the shelf and the books sort of came down one by one almost kind of like the fanning of a card deck. After that, some other smaller things like that started happening and my mother noticed them and my family noticed them and at that point I developed an interest. Thanks to my kind of Dr. Who background of which I was a religious watcher, I needed to know the mechanics behind it and that’s what got me started on this.
CP24: The website talks a lot about approaching ghost stories with an almost academic mindset, where you thoroughly research the reported events without any sort of prejudice. Why do you sort of preach the idea of neutrality when it comes to the paranormal?
Didier: When people are looking into things it is very easy to fall into a trap. I have met one too many people in my life who believed to such a degree that they can’t squirm from that and look for a natural reason that certain things may have happened. For example someone may write to us saying there is a cold spot in their home and we will often write back saying ‘Have you checked to see if there is a HVAC vent anywhere nearby?’ and sometimes they have checked but sometimes they have not and they are so firm in their belief that it is a ghost and usually thanks to the reality type programs out there they immediately hop to it (the ghost) being really dangerous and scary and horrible. On the other side of things, I also get a lot of people who tell me that everything is utter nonsense and I take on the belief that all claims require evidence and included in those claims are the ones that this is nonsense. Neutrality has to go both ways. True believers have to take a step back and make sure that they have tried to eliminate every natural cause that they can and the skeptics have to take a step back and say “Well, with this many people there must be at least something a little more to this.’ The knee-jerk it is not real reaction isn’t an answer.
CP24: How many people are involved with the Toronto Ghosts and Hauntings Research Society?
Didier: Right now we only have about two dozen people actively helping with the website and doing research, but overall we have a little over 60 people. It is not easy to sign up with us. There is a course book we make people read, you have to take an examination and then you have to submit two written articles, which are then peer-reviewed. We wanted to make sure we are dealing with people who have done their homework and can kind of adhere to those tenants of being neutral.
CP24: There are so many ghost stories that circulate in this city whether they are about Old City Hall, Casa Loma or any number of other buildings. How do you sort the good from the unfounded?
Didier: Well I often get asked what makes a place haunted and the answer, though people don’t seem to like it, is that people say it is haunted. There really is no other benchmark. There is no firm universally acceptable evidence or proof to say X place is haunted and Y place is not, so basically what it comes down to is witness testimony and for us it then comes down to looking historically at the data. How many people have mentioned this place before? Has it ever been written about previously? Have we even heard about this place previously? Do the reports seem to match? When we look at them do we sort of see a pattern emerging? The other thing to consider to is that a lot of the best ghost stories are strictly folkloric and often when you take the time to sit down and look at them they are one-off stories. For example the infamous story of Reznikoff and Diabolos (Former stone masons Ivan Reznikoff and Paul Diabolos) at the University College of Toronto, that ghost hasn’t been seen all the time. There was a story about a soon to be Premier of Ontario having a drink with the ghost, but you haven’t really heard much since then. Is that story fake? I would say not, it is quite a legitimate story. Now is there evidence to suggest things are currently going on? Not currently, but it doesn’t take away from the historical and folkloric relevance of the report.
CP24: Why do so many people from so many different walks of life tell these stories? What is it about ghost stories that allows them to instantly capture our attention and prompt us to retell them later on?
Didier: I could write a novel or a large dissertation. It is a worldwide phenomenon. In Asia you usually have elemental ghosts more like spirits and they tend to be based in water, fire or land and they are usually not very friendly. The Aboriginals in Australia have things like giant heads floating around. It something that is worldwide and that people pass down. I think ghosts stories as far as we understand them have three potential elements. One is that everyone likes a good scare. If we didn’t we wouldn’t have horror movies or the dark rides at CNE. The other thing is that there are people that think ghosts stories are proof of life after death and for them it is evidence that there is something more that goes on. I have written copious amounts on why that is problematic and maybe something people should take a good look at, but I am not going to question someone’s beliefs. Lastly I think you will find that most ghost stories are kind of morality tales. It is very rare when you hear these stories and it is not a lovelorn person or somebody had a particular passion for a place or a site. When you say to people “Where is the best place to find a ghost?” they are going to knee-jerk to a cemetery but that’s not likely. Most of the times you hear of full-on ghost stories it takes place where a person lived, slept, breathed or passed away and not where they are buried. I believe there is something like 5,000 known burial grounds of various sorts across Ontario and only eight of them have ghost stories with sort of historical legs and of those eight five of them are actually the ghosts of caretakers or frequent visitors to the cemetery. You are far more likely to find a haunted theatre than you are a haunted cemetery.
CP24: What is a ghost? I guess it is something that can’t be defined.
Didier: Yeah, well you tell me.
CP24: I can’t. That’s why I ask the questions.
Didier: Yeah, exactly. It is almost impossible to respond to that because if I knew that it wouldn’t be the study of the unknown and instead I would be working at the University of Toronto teaching a course on ghostology. Realistically what it comes down to is what people experience. One persons’ ghost is another persons’ demon, is another’s persons’ angel, is another persons’ case of psychic ability. There are so many possibilities. It’s like saying ‘What is an animal?’
To learn more about the Toronto Ghostsand Hauntings Research Society follow this link.
Q and A is published every Saturday on CP24.com.
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