TORONTO - It wasn't long into the Barenaked Ladies' set at Toronto's Massey Hall earlier this month when the catcalls began.

"Would you PLEASE sit down!" screamed one fan. "WE CAN'T SEE!" shrieked another.

Promoters promised that the "Barenaked for the Holidays" concert would be a "raucous show," but it appeared there were two visions of what was supposed to happen that night.

There were fans who eagerly leapt to their feet the instant the house lights went down, and others who stewed in their seats, unable to see a thing but still not wanting to stand either.

Whether to stand or sit at concerts is an oft-debated, controversial topic among music fans, and venues are split on what the audience is entitled to do and what should be expected at a show.

At Toronto's iconic Massey Hall -- a 114-year-old theatre that seats about 2,700 and has played host to everyone from Neil Young and Bob Dylan to U2 and Rush -- there's no ironclad sit-or-stand policy in place.

But some concertgoers might be surprised at what their "rights" are.

While the venue doesn't refuse to let fans get up and dance, buying a ticket does not grant a patron the absolute right to do so either, said Jeff Patterson, a Massey Hall manager.

A lot of people say, when you ask them to sit down, that they bought the right to stand, Patterson said.

"But a lot of people who are sitting down will also say, 'Well, I bought this ticket and I have the right to sit down and enjoy the show as well."'

"It is definitely one of the more difficult situations we have to deal with. It's a pretty sticky one," Patterson said.

He said the final decision on how to deal with the debate inevitably rests with the artists, and the venue's staff will ask a tour manager if fans should be encouraged to sit or allowed to stand.

Most recently, Massey Hall had the band City and Colour insist that fans be seated, while James Blunt wanted his audience to be allowed to stand if they chose to do so.

It turns out the fans in the front row at Blunt's concert did want to stand, but no one else in the venue did, which created a bit of a problem, Patterson said.

"We had quite a difficult time with that because you get an audience that's not like kids at a Kelly Clarkson show -- it's not younger kids who want to jump up and dance for the songs -- it's an older audience that want to sit down," he said.

"We tried to put a bit of a positive spin on it and say, `You know what, jump up and enjoy the show, dance away because this is what (Blunt) wants."'

In at least one case, a band got borderline hostile with a Massey Hall audience that chose to sit instead of stand.

Wilco lead singer Jeff Tweedy hurled an expletive at the crowd at a 2006 concert for sitting politely, and encouraged everyone to stand up.

He later apologized after fans gladly stayed on their feet, and said he should have invited them to stand sooner.

On the other hand, sometimes artists want the audience to respect the intimacy of a small venue and not act like they're in an arena among tens of thousands of fans.

Yes guitarist Steve Howe played some solo acoustic dates earlier this year and was furious when fans treated an intimate gig at Montreal's Oscar Peterson Concert Hall as if it was a full-blown rock show.

"There was one person in the audience who kept shouting, 'Steve Howe, you're great, you're good, woo!' and he just wouldn't stop," Howe said.

"(I felt like saying) 'I know my name, can you not keep shouting it out.' I think venues need to be a little bit more proactive and maybe haul them out."

But some venues believe a rock concert shouldn't be like an opera and it should be expected that people will stand and get a little noisy.

At Vancouver's Orpheum Theatre it's very rare that a fan complains they can't see because they want to sit and others are standing, said spokesman Rae Ackerman.

"I think I might have had a complaint like that a few years ago and I just sort of said to the person, 'That's what happens, if you didn't know that, I'm sorry -- now you know,"' Ackerman said.

"It seems to me it's a rare person who doesn't know it's part of the culture of being a part of the audience, and the ones who don't like it don't go. Or the smart ones try to get front row balcony so they can stay sitting down and there's no one in front of them."

He said if the venue did have a policy, it would definitely cater more to the standers than the sitters.

"We don't make any attempt to make them sit down -- man, that would be an incitement to riot," he joked.

"They're going to do what they do, there's no life or safety risk. It's a mob response, a herd response -- and it's customary."